Why Your Networking Isn't Working with Jim Morris

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Right now, somewhere, an entrepreneur is sitting in their hotel room, and right before the conference, they're rehearsing their elevator pitch in the mirror. I've done this myself. Right now, somewhere, an entrepreneur is sitting in their hotel room right before the conference, rehearsing their elevator pitch in the mirror. They're going to walk into that room tomorrow, shake 40 hands, hand out 40 business cards, and collect 40 LinkedIn connections. And by next month, they won't remember a single one of those conversations, and neither will the other person. Here's uncomfortable part. That's not bad luck. That's the predictable result of doing networking exactly the way everyone taught us to do it. [00:00:40] Speaker B: Our guest today has a very special story because he actually survived a robbery that should have killed him. And he says that the only reason he's alive is a skill most business books treat as a soft skill, which is genuine human connection. He's since built and sold multiple companies, given to TEDx talks, and written a book arguing that in a world racing towards automation and AI, the ability to actually connect with another human being isn't optional anymore. It's actually the whole game. So today, we are going deep on what real connection looks like at a conference or in a sales call, or even in a relationship that's supposed to last longer than the deal that started it. No scripts, no hacks, just what actually works. This is rich and remote, so let's get into it. All right, Alex. Our guest today is Jim Morris. Welcome, Jim. Good morning to all of our listeners. How are you today, Jim? [00:01:40] Speaker C: Wonderful. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk about the thing I love most. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Connection. Yeah. I am so excited to have you here, man. As soon as I met you last. Was it last week? Two weeks ago? I was like, this guy has got to be on our podcast. I want to talk to him more. And then we found out we have way more in common than I care to share in this podcast. But I am super excited to have you here, man. [00:02:03] Speaker C: Yeah, same here. Thanks for having me. And I always appreciate going deep with someone and talking about what matters most. So thanks, Alex, for engaging in that level of conversation. And I'm excited to see where the future goes and where our friendship goes, brother. [00:02:19] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and actually, yesterday, Carla is reading your book, and she was learning a little bit about your backstory, right? She goes, alex, didn't you do that? Wasn't that something you were doing? She's like, no wonder you guys were hitting it off last week. And she was like, that's why? You guys said you had a deep conversation. So if anyone's wondering what we're talking about, don't try to read in between the lines. Read in between the pages. Read Jim's book. It's great. He's got his whole backstory. There's. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really good segue because our guest today to all of our listeners, Jim Morris is a keynote speaker who helps organizations scale revenue and create deep belonging by developing the skills to lead with connection for intentional growth. So it's not just like a feel good, lovey dovey approach. It is about creating efficiency, effectiveness and revenue for the organization. Literally all of us here are entrepreneurs or want to make more money are building businesses for profit. If your business is not making any money, then it's just a hobby, right? So the book that actually I read last night, a book written by Jim Morris, I really enjoyed it. The title is Connect or Die how to Survive AI and he also serves as the CEO of Human Touch Publishing. We will publish a link to get access to the book. You can also find it on your Kindle Unlimited. That's how I got it. It was very enjoyable. I was telling them that I already read like 70 pages in one sitting, of course. In his family life, Jim was born in Massachusetts and now resides in Nashville, Tennessee with his wife Caitlyn, daughter Ellie and son James. He believes that you will not be able to be the greatest version of yourself all by yourself. I love that. So first question, when did you decide that that was like one of your mottos in life? You will not be able to be the greatest version of yourself by yourself. [00:04:14] Speaker C: Throughout my life, you know, there's been ups and downs, struggles and wins, peaks and valleys, right. And I think we can all relate to different seasons and different emotions that are tied to those seasons. But Back in about four years ago, I had put on a conference, a one day conference. I invested every dollar I had $240,000 into this one day and we were about 32 days away. I had just lost my sales team, a $30,000 sponsorship. I had to pay speakers and I had a payment due at the, for the venue. Right. We had it in a 65,000 square foot venue here in downtown Nashville, right off of Broadway. And that was the breaking point for me where I realized that I couldn't do it alone. You know, having a corporate job and starting a business and it being very successful and selling a business and buying another business. Right. Like I did all that in a way where it was just push through it and do the next thing and I don't need help. I can navigate this world. And in that moment, what I realized was, you know, I didn't have the solution. I was losing everything. I just got married, I just had my first child. You know, I had all this money on the line and it was tough for me. It was a struggle, you know, I had to break the ego. And if I wanted to go and create this positive impact and change lives and open minds from the stage and the workshops and the follow up events that I was hosting and producing for the greater good of our culture, for the greater good of business owners and entrepreneurs and our community, if I wanted to create that positive impact at such a large scale, I realized that I couldn't do it alone. And quite honestly, I was failing doing it alone. And I had everything on the line. So that was a very pivotal point for me where I continued to beat my head up against the wall and think that I could do it by myself. And if I really wanted to make a greater impact, if I really wanted to change the world and know, really influence in a positive way, well, I needed other people to do that. It wasn't just the tech or the content or the marketing, but it was really navigating conversations with others and leaning into the one to many strategy and, you know, selling 250 tickets in 32 days leading up to the conference. I couldn't have done that alone. I had to ask for help and I had to build deep relationships and share the why, not just the how I was going to do it. [00:06:55] Speaker A: Brother, that is an incredibly stressful picture you just painted. I just want to say as soon as you mentioned that price tag, I started sweating. You know, I personally am someone who's always been the I want to do everything on my own. I'm not going to ask for any help. But I got into entrepreneurship when I was, when I got married, right. And so I've always treated it differently than anything else. How long did you last and how long was it until you got to that point, like of your entrepreneur journey? Like, was it a few years of you not being, you know, like sharing that burden with other people? I'm just generally curious, like, how long did you last and do you think you could have lasted any longer? [00:07:37] Speaker C: Well, I think for me I was playing in a very hindered way, meaning I was only going to get to a certain level if I was going to do it by myself. And in that year, after getting married and having a child and creating a deeper and bigger Vision. What I realized was I wasn't living up to my capacity. And for me specifically, if I wanted to live up to my capacity, I had to go through those rough and tough times to truly understand that I can't be the greatest version and I won't have the biggest impact if I do it myself. So starting a company in 2019, you know, growing it and then Covid hitting and, you know, going down to zero revenue and, you know, building that back up in a consulting firm and, you know, getting into real estate and buying investments and selling properties. Right. I was doing a lot of that by myself and it was working, but I wasn't living up to the capacity and having the positive impact that I thought I could. And that's when I transitioned out of it, started speaking, started influencing people with my words and telling stories that were relatable and attractive so people could have the inspiration, the courage, and the motive to go build their own stories and realize that, hey, when you're down in the valleys, if you have a network of people you trust and confidants and allies, then you can, you know, live the life you want and continue to build what you seek to build and grow. So it was. It was a long time. And, you know, prior to that, in corporate, I had teams underneath me, I had managers, I worked in different markets in different states. But ultimately, you know, I held on to every client relationship. And now I look back on it and realize, hey, I could have been, you know, much more explosive in these markets if I didn't try to do it myself. [00:09:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I really resonate with that because I've also experienced super down moments in my business where if I didn't have anyone to bail me out, I would be in a very bad position. Right. There's two sides to entrepreneurship. There is the thought that kind of some entrepreneurship is lonely, you're alone sometimes, no one's coming to save you. And there's also another side where is more people actually want to help more people than you think. There's actually more people that want to see you succeed too. Then you get to the other side, and you get to the other side and you kind of just fling between these two sides. But we gotta. I want to keep it simple. So you did share, Jim, that your entire philosophy comes down to four words, which is what do you need? So walk us through the moment you realize that that question was more powerful than any pitch you memorized. And also my other personal question is, isn't it weird if someone you just met is asking you, hey, what do you need? Like, what do you think it is? [00:10:33] Speaker C: Very weird. Let's just, let's just call the elephant out in the room. But I'm going to give you some pre frame ways to suggest this and to navigate these conversations, right? If you walk up to someone randomly and say, hey, I'm Jim Morris, what do you need? Right? They're going to be like, what's the angle? What's this person trying to get? This is odd. But I want to go back to the first question you asked. How did I figure this out? How did I see the impact that it can have? I talked about COVID times in 2020, my first business, right? We grew it to a little under a million. And then all of a sudden the switch got flipped and 54 contracts gone, zero revenue, a boatload of expenses. And I gathered eight people together in a room and I basically, you know, I don't know how to say this more direct, but I basically, I had no idea what I was going to do. And I had the emotional intelligence to understand that these eight people in this room had no idea what to do, right? Everybody was losing their business. Someone just invested 80,000 in a new app and, you know, they couldn't go out and promote it and get in front of people and have them download it. This other gentleman had a landscaping company and you know, all his monthly reoccurring revenue just went to zero because everybody was in a freeze mode. And I sat at this table with, with eight people. They let us sit next to each other. I had to barter and negotiate that at the time. And I put my phone down right on the table and I opened up the contacts and I said, what do you need? Meaning I was going to run through all of my contacts and make connections right there in the moment to help people solve their problem. And when we ask this question, a lot of people come to me or after I do a speech, and they say, well, you know, what if I can't serve them what they need? What if I don't have the solution? What if I don't have the contact? Well, just by giving someone the opportunity to share what they need allows them to get it out, allows them to voice their needs. And also, you don't have to solve it. You may have a book that you could send them. You may have recently read an article, you may have done a course, you may know someone who knows someone, right? And once you start to share that vulnerable intimacy of what someone needs now, it's in your memory bank because You've connected on a deep level. You were vulnerable, they were vulnerable. There's a dialogue that continues to occur. So as you're going out and you're meeting someone, you can say, oh, Carla needs this. Hey, I gotta introduce you to my friend Carla. And that could come in six weeks, six months. Right? So I think as you navigate those conversations, there's a right way to frame it and pre frame it. You know, when I introduce someone, I always introduce my full name. Jim Morris. Right. I want to separate if you've met three or four other gyms before. I also want to separate. Maybe if you're at a conference or at an event, there's another gym you met. So after I do that introduction, I typically will ask someone like, what's the big thing you're navigating? What big dream are you looking to accomplish? Right. And that starts to open up. Oh, you know, I'm thinking about doing this or I'm working on this. And once they start to share what they're working on, that's when I pre frame it and say, oh, well, what do you need to get to the next level? What do you need to see success in that project, in that dream? And whenever I talk about this, I always share this acronym. F, O, R, D, the FORD acronym. A lot of people, when they meet someone, they go with F. They ask them a question about their family. Oh, occupation, what do you do? The common question that everybody asks, R. Recreation. Oh, what's a cool vacation you've been on? Do you like sports? What's a movie you've seen? And we never get to the D, which is dreams. So if we can focus on the date and push that up in the conversation, it opens the window for us to ask what you need. [00:14:38] Speaker B: I like that. And I love the point that you said about don't feel the pressure to be the problem solver because there's a resource, there's a, I don't know, a YouTube video or an introduction that you can give them. But the other thing I want to add to what you shared specifically about that is I love how it puts, puts you in the position of generosity, of giving, of abundance. I believe in all that woo woo stuff and I believe that givers win. I, I really believe in that. And I think if I can be the first person to give you value in any way. Right. I, I think that, that we're already in a positive, you know, we already started our relationship in a positive way. And it's also fun, thoughtful. It is really thoughtful. I Met this guy at a conference years ago and he randomly mentioned, super random, that his kid is trying out competitive gymnastics. And I was, I, I somehow saw this really good YouTube channel of gymnastics person and I just sent it to him, hey, your daughter might like this. You know, it was totally unrelated. Let me tell you. That guy sent me business for the next five years and honestly I didn't do anything else. And I actually started feeling pressured to also bring him business. I just, he was just in a very niche market and he told me, hey, don't worry about it. But I wanted to share that experience. [00:16:09] Speaker C: I think it's really powerful because we get caught up in the business to business opportunity, right? And as you're saying that I thought about a story where I, you know, someone was saying, oh, I, I need a babysitter, I need more time in my business, I need to create more content for marketing. And, and you know, I made two introductions to babysitters and had nothing to do with business. And then a couple months later that person referred me a massive deal, right? In business because they thought about me, because the relationship grew and how I served them, how I helped them, had nothing to do. I didn't give them a client that paid them 50 grand. I made an introduction to solve a problem and provide a opportunity to the need that they were facing. So it doesn't need to be business to business. But if you actively listen, if you silence your mind and actively listen, then you're going to remember it, you're going to download it and you're going to have the opportunity to ask further questions or take that pause in that moment to think about the resources you already have, the network, the opportunities that you can provide them. [00:17:22] Speaker A: And I think a lot of people do and they're going into these situations of networking, they are waiting, it's really clear. They're waiting for their opportunity to talk, right? Like they, they're not listening and you can see it on their face, they're like jumping right to it. Do you have any tricks for people to kind of, I don't know, avoid those tells that it's really obvious? Maybe it is. Just sit there and listen for X amount of minutes until you got a few facts like what do you think a good rulebook is for them to kind of avoid being that obvious person that's just generally focused on themselves? [00:18:02] Speaker C: Well, I think, you know, body language is the first thing that comes to mind for me. So, you know, I call it squaring up, right? If, if you're realizing that you're not even squared up with the person, and you're to the side, then are you really engaged with them? Right. And vice versa, are they squared up with you? Right. A mentor of mine, I talk about it in the book. You know, she worked for the FBI and the atf. She was a body language expert. She calls it navel intelligence because she says that if your belly button isn't centered or squared up with the person, then are they really engaged or are they just waiting to, you know, give a pitch? Right? And I think how you show that you're engaged in that conversation is, you know, are you leading with compassionate curiosity? Well, everybody, every sales book, every playbook says, be curious. Ask questions, ask questions, ask questions, right? We've probably all heard that from stage. We've probably all read that, maybe even taking a course on it when it comes to sales. But I believe that if you are just asking questions to ask questions and just waiting for your opportunity to pitch or you feel that someone else is doing that, they're just asking, asking, asking, so they can kind of give you an opportunity to talk before they pitch you. Yeah, we can feel that. We can also feel true compassion. So if you actively listen, right? Listen and silent. They're the same words, just jumbled differently. So how do you actively listen? You silent the mind. So when you're introducing yourself to someone and they say, oh, I'm Alex, and in my mind, it's not silent, and I'm thinking about what I'm gonna say, that's the number one reason why we forget people's names. For sure. We're not actively listening, right? Well, if you practice connection, you practice this verbal mastery, you know what to say, then you don't have to think about it, and you can actually be present. When you're present, you can now start to have compassion to what someone's actually saying. So if you are talking about, you know, I need this, and this is what's going on in my business, and I'm thinking about the next thing I'm going to say, and I just rifle off a question. Well, that's not compassionate. [00:20:29] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:20:29] Speaker C: Now, if I loop back to you that question, If I mirror words and vernacular and phrases that you say, right? I call everybody brother. When someone says brother back to me now, mirror neurons are starting to fire. [00:20:44] Speaker A: That's what you're doing. [00:20:46] Speaker C: This synchronicity that happens, right? And when that happens and when I'm compassionate and I loop back to you what you just said, if someone says, hey, you Know, I'm really struggling right now in lead generation, and I've tried this and that and I'm actively listening. And I say, well, Alex, you know, sounds like you're really struggling in lead generation and you've tried this resource and that resource. And then I paused. Well, now it's going to give you an opportunity to talk and keep telling me about that problem and keep telling me about your experience. I believe that when you build a relationship and deep connection, you should only be talking 20% of the time. And if you use techniques like looping back to someone, you don't even actually have to ask them a question. You can just provide back a statement to show that you are actively listening. And they'll keep running with the conversation, which allows them to talk more than you. And the more information you can gather, the more information and the better way you can serve that person in the moment that they need it most, which is when you're dialoguing and having a conversation with them. [00:21:55] Speaker A: That's such a. I really like the way you put that, especially the belly button part. I love, I love the rest too. But I'm just picturing people being awkward with their body and if they can figure out, figure out the focus on one thing, like, let me point my belly button at the person, then they can just go ahead and forget about their body and then move forward to let me listen to this individual. Let me, let me repeat something back. Let me show compassion. So that's a really great little tidbit. I know it sounds basic, but like, when you're in the moment of networking, maybe you've flown across the country, you spent thousands of dollars, you know, you're putting kind of an all in situation for some people. You know, these conversations, these small conversations can actually turn somewhat disastrous, right? So it's a big deal. And like these teeny little things actually mean a lot if someone has them in the back of their head and have a little coaching. [00:22:49] Speaker C: I agree 100%. I think how you show up when you connect with people is immediately tied back to your personal brand. And as we know, your personal brand is something that no one can take from you. So every interaction, every conversation, every experience someone exchanges, there is a positive impact from that or a negative impact. I do not believe in neutrality. Right? Someone's walking away going, oh, I really like that guy Jim, or they're walking away and like, I couldn't wait to get away from him. Right? Like, and it could be subtle, it might not be that direct, or it could be Subconscious, right? You go to the bar at an event and you know you're gonna. You see two open spots, and one's next to. Next to Jim, and one is next to Dave, and you had a good interaction with Dave, subconsciously, you're gonna go to the spot next to Dave, right? So, like, these things add up and they stack, and. And a lot of the time, we don't even know that it's happening or occurring. But I think if you can focus on this, if you can look at connection as a skill, not something you're born with, not something that, you know, you can just do once in a while and you're going to, you know, maximize your opportunities. But if you can provide yourself an opportunity to focus on it and go through connection reps, right in the back of every chapter in my book is a connection rep, something that you should be continuously practicing. Connection is just like a muscle at the gym. You got to lift the weights over and over for that muscle to grow. And if you want to grow that muscle of connection and have these strategies and opportunities and leverage these things, then you've got to put in the time, the energy, and the focus, and ultimately the consistency. [00:24:37] Speaker A: I couldn't agree more. [00:24:38] Speaker B: It's all about reps. Yeah, that's true. And before, I used to kind of switch myself on and off when I. You know what I mean? Like, when you go to a conference and you're like. You're in your room and you're like, okay, gotta go socialize. But the more that I did it, the more it felt natural, and I also enjoyed it more. I like your point about listening and how your mind should be silent because we've all been there. You know, being an entrepreneur is your mind is always running 24, seven in, like, really high speed. And you could be thinking of other stuff, too, of your laundry, your kids, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And. But it's funny to me. I always joke with Alex that when guys say, oh, I'm so bad with names, I forgot your name, I think that that's it. They just weren't, like, maybe listening fully, but they memorize all of the members of their favorite NFL teams. All of the players are all of the quarterbacks from, like, for 20 years. How can you memorize all of those names? How can you memorize all of those names and not this person in front of you who you just talked to? But no, I was just attacking Alex because I can. [00:25:52] Speaker A: NFL season just started. So fantasy in our household. [00:25:58] Speaker B: I'm just teasing him, but the other thing that I wanted to ask you, Jim, is when we go to conferences, when we attend these events, we usually come with an investment, right? Your time, your. Your flight, your hotel, and whatever you paid for the conference. And then we. We hear about these kind of like, hustle culture networking tactics, like, always be closing or, you know, always think about your next opportunity. Where does that instinct actively sabotage the kind of connection you're describing? [00:26:32] Speaker C: So if you go into it with this, you know, mindset of I need to find the person who can serve me at the highest level immediately and quickly, and where's my next client? I don't know about you guys, but whenever I did that, I walked away with no clients, right? Because you have an opportunity for someone to truly see who you are. And when you can engage in vulnerability, when you can show compassion, when you can ask deep questions, and when someone gets the opportunity to share, right? Like we as humans, our brains are wired naturally to answer questions. When someone asks us something, we want to give them an answer. We also love to talk about ourselves, right? You don't have to be an extrovert or an influencer or, you know, putting out five reels a day to feel good. When someone asks you, hey, what's a massive win you've had in the last six months? Like, you're an entrepreneur, you're a digital nomad. You're moving and grooving, you're doing all these things, like, what's something you're proud about that feels good when you get to share that out into the world. So when we engage with people and we get them to understand who we are, and we get to show some vulnerability and we get to ask questions to show that we care about them, what that actually does is that speeds up the sales process, right? I was telling Alex before this, you know, I cold called a gentleman. I used. AI found his cell phone, and he's going to be. We're going to be helping him with this book. And the last thing he asked me today on the. On the sales call was Jim. All right, so how'd you get my phone number? Right? And I was like, well, I found it through AI. And he's like, when you called me, it felt like I knew you. And, you know, we had a conversation around the fact that I was just being me, right? And, like, when we communicate, we want to put all this pressure on top of ourselves to run this script into this play. But if you can just be yourself and have a conversation like you've known someone and you're not hiding something, you're not hindering, you're being open, you're being honest, you're being vulnerable. As if you've been friends with them for 20 years, then that's going to open up the opportunity for them to feel just as comfortable as you feel conversating with them. And when you go into those conversations with I gotta find a client immediately and I better get my investment back, right? That negative energy is coming out of you. And people can feel that they may not be able to know exactly what it is or put a word to it or a phrase, but deep down they're like, oh, there's something off there. Or maybe I don't want to talk to him at the cocktail hour the next night or the dinner or when they're smoking cigars, right? Maybe I'm just going to go over here and if you can open up that conversation and be you through the process, connection's gonna, you know, immediately grow and that sales process is actually gonna shorten, right? I cold call that gentleman and we're working with him on one of our biggest packages, which is a lot of money. And you know, we had a 30 minute conversation on my podcast and we've had two calls since. And he's investing in us providing that service of writing a great book and launching it and publishing it. And that was because I was being me throughout the whole process. You know, I will swear often, sometimes I don't do it just to do it, but like, if I'm fired up and I'm excited and I was, you know, I was being me and I was saying, yo, yo, what's up, man? Right? Like, I wasn't putting on this front. I wasn't faking to be something I wasn't. And I feel like when we put the pressure of business that I need to go get and grab and win. And then we don't actually have those opportunities because we're not being ourselves, we're being something outside that. And people can feel that through the conversation, through the connection, and through how we talk about our business and how we seek to serve others through the process. [00:30:47] Speaker A: I totally agree. Just like you said, people can sense the compassion, right? They can also sense the authenticity. I remember my first job out of college, I was doing sales for yellow pages. They moved online and they rebranded as yp. One of my favorite, like cold calls was I would be driving down the highway and I would call a roofer. Cause I saw their truck, right? I would call the number, I just saw you going down. I5, you know, I've got all these jobs, and it just felt so much more authentic. And it was. It always had the better results. Obviously. Like, that's a little bit different of a sales tactic, but it's the authenticity. However, I do think, like, sometimes, especially when alcohol is involved. Right. There is a risk of maybe being a little too authentic. Right. Do you have any advice for anybody to kind of put some guardrails on so they don't go over the top? [00:31:45] Speaker C: Totally. Well, I think authenticity, you need to be aware because you may share something that someone's not ready to receive. Right now, in my book, I talk about, you know, my parents being addicted to OxyContin. I talk about, you know, selling drugs to pay for college. If I just meet someone and start dumping that on them, and they've never experienced addiction, or maybe they did. Maybe they were addicted to OxyContin. Right. And it ruined their life. Or they went through really hard times. Maybe my vulnerability has now caused them trauma. It in the moment. Maybe my vulnerability has triggered them. Right. So it takes time and you. And, you know, the best strategy I would share is when someone else is talking 80% of the time. That means you only have to talk 20% of the time. So use those moments to, you know, give back the same vulnerability you're getting. Right. Alex, you and I had a conversation. We sat next to each other the next day on the bus. We went really deep together. Right? It was an intimate setting. We were, like, shoulder to shoulder on the bus, going to go, should I be worried? [00:32:58] Speaker A: I loved every moment of it. [00:33:02] Speaker C: And, you know, that didn't start with, like, us getting super vulnerable the day before. It started with, hey, I like this guy. He's got good energy. He's smart, he's running a cool company. Right? And you were engaging with me. You were asking questions about what I do and why I do it. And. Right. So there was this moment where later that night, if we got, you know, drunk and had too much alcohol, maybe it would have been too short of a time for that first conversation to settle and for us to realize, okay. Because when I woke up the next day, I'm like, okay, there's three people I want to talk to today for sure. Right? And I had good conversations. I want to follow up. I want to engage deeper. I want to get to know them better. But if that happened the same night, and then all of a sudden, I started dumping out all this stuff. And especially when you're intoxicated is typically when trauma will come up so if I'm trauma dumping, no one really wants to deal with that at an event, you know, So I would just say, you know, have your alcoholic beverages and count them, because you and only you will know if four is the right amount or it's one too many, you know? [00:34:21] Speaker A: Very true. I thought for a minute there you're gonna say it can prevent forest fires. Sounded like smoking the bear, by the way. Like when we had that conversation on the bus, too. I gave. I. I matched Jim's energy, right? He. We started talking about his book. He talked about something, his past. I shared the similar experience. Confirm that. Giving the green light. We can go down that road, right? We can have that conversation. So it's. I don't even feel like it's an art form. It's just. It's. It's sensory, right. And just being appropriate and pacing yourself. [00:34:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:55] Speaker A: And it is the reps. You're right. [00:34:57] Speaker B: It's actually the reps. I. In. In, like, the women entrepreneurs space, they talk a lot about vulnerability. But you're absolutely right, Jim. There are people who do it overboard, and instead of just being vulnerable, they turn into a hot mess. That's like the term that I use. Airing out dirty laundry or sounding negative, Right? Like, if I just recently get divorced and then I'm trying to use my divorce as a way to connect with other women, that's fine, totally fine. But there is a way to elegantly be vulnerable instead of you're just, like, talking shit about your husband 24 7, because it's not also going to be a good experience. The other thing that I would add is, I think in general, aside from the reps, I think we should also think about, like, what energy am I bringing in this conversation? And that is, for me, that is where I use humor. Alex notices this when it becomes too deep. Sometimes I try to, like, bring it back to, like, the casual kind of light, happy mood. And I would say, say a joke. But of course, if I feel like it is intimate in a respectful way, not being, like, a hot mess, then I let them. I let them talk. And then. And then later, I can, like, say the joke to bring it back. Right. For me, it was all reps, and it's all really, like, a lot of active listening and not thinking about your next sale or turning a person into a dollar sign. I think that's really it. Like, you can. You can feel it, right? We've all been there. Well, we just felt like a lead. And that's why I dislike going to pure networking Events. Have you remembered those? Gym? Like, there are. And maybe Alex. So there are certain networking events where you're just like, oh, my God, everyone here just kind of wants something from me 100%. [00:36:46] Speaker C: I mean, in 2020, that's why I started Impact Effect, because I wanted to meet people that didn't just dish out the business cards. And I actually created this concept called network not normal because I wanted to be so far away. And when you came in, there was a sign that said, no business cards allowed. I love that because I wanted to change the trajectory of how people started to connect. And I think, too, like, Carla, what you were saying about those scenarios where you bring comedy back into it, you're probably reading body language, right? Like, I remember a dinner where it was five random people grouped up to go out to dinner. It was in Nashville. This. You buy into it. And, you know, one woman was on a journey of, you know, I just got divorced. I'm going to do what I love. You know, I'm sick of, you know, being this person that I'm not. And then this other woman was talking about how she has to do this work to support her six children. And I watched, you know, the body language. And this woman didn't perceive the other woman to be offended by everything she was saying. She kept putting her hand over her throat, which body language would tell you that she's uncomfortable. She kept touching the back of her neck, right? And I'm watching this. So I used humor. And what I did was I inflicted humor on myself to pull both people to joke and focus on me rather than focusing on the tension that they had. And I made some stupid joke, like, oh, yeah, you know, I totally thought, you know, the oil was our salad dressing, and I. And I was gonna pour it all over my salad, and it would have tasted like there was something so stupid that everybody just kind of looked at me and, like, laughed, like, yeah, that was dumb. And because I had confidence that that was the right thing to do to keep the energy together of the room. I didn't care if I looked dumb. I didn't care if it was some stupid thing that I almost did. So I think, you know, not only can you curate a one on one conversation, but when you're in a group setting, you can really transition the energy to focus on the greater good, not only for you, but for the whole. And at that point, I had one on ones with every single person after that dinner. Because the dinner didn't end with these two people going at each other. It transitioned out of that. And we got back focused on the conversation and how we can help and serve each other. So seeing that opportunity to not allow these two people to kind of take over the energy of the table opened it up for everybody to get and be served in the way that they wanted. They all were there to connect with people they didn't know. [00:39:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:40] Speaker C: And I watched it kind of go downhill really quick because of the body language. And I even saw, you know, one of the woman who was talking about the divorce and how she's free and she's gonna do what she wants and all this stuff, when that woman was like, yeah, well, I have to do this work, I watched her shoulders completely turn away. Right. It goes back to the, to the belly button. Same thing. Shoulders, belly button. She just didn't agree with it. And her body language told me that. And then I watched the other woman's body language. Right. And so I think there's all these little things and I talk about these in the book where, you know, it's what you say, it's how you say it, it's body language. And if we can continue to focus on this stuff, you start to pick up very quickly and you can start to influence. And I share this and I talk about it because there's a fine line between influence and manipulation. Right. I'm not trying to manipulate people by learning connection. I'm trying to understand alignment. And I'm starting and trying to understand, can I be better in the conversation for both of us to get what we're seeking. Not to manipulate you, to buy something, not to manipulate you to like me, but to truly understand alignment. And when you know how to connect deeper and you can use these skills, you're gonna get to the point where you can make a decision faster. Are you actually aligned and do you actually want to connect with this person? Right. A lot of people think, oh, Jim wrote a book on connection. Jim wants to connect with the world. Like I was telling someone the other day, I'm like, if I can, if I can ask deeper questions and understand who someone is, well, I just save myself a follow up phone call tomorrow, a coffee meeting in two weeks, a zoom call. [00:41:35] Speaker A: Right. [00:41:35] Speaker C: Because I'm not aligned with someone who just will do anything to make a buck. I want to work with people who care about what they're doing. They want to serve others, and they want to show up and positively impact people. So if you engage with me and I ask you, what's your dream? And you're like, to be a millionaire And I don't care how to get there. I'm going to say, well, I need to use the restroom. I'm going to go walk over to someone else and connect with them. [00:42:00] Speaker B: Yeah, that's absolutely true. And I think that with everything that you shared, I noticed that the bridge to having someone be comfortable with you, talk to you, share vulnerable experience with you, and then maybe consider working with you, I think the bridge for that is trust. I think if I see a signal that I can trust someone in any way because maybe they're listening to me, maybe their body language, I think that is a good bridge to, like, having the business conversation whenever that comes up. So I have a question for, like, both of you guys, actually. So, Alex, you run a customer success company. In staffing and in consulting, you help businesses make more money by improving customer satisfaction. How do you get a customer to trust you? What is like, one strategy that you can easily get a customer, or how do you train your customer success teams to have that first interaction that develops trust? And I guess for Jim, that is also like a question, but in a social sense. What is an easy way to make the person I'm talking to think that, hey, I can trust Carla, I can trust this person? [00:43:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I think in the customer success side, there's a relationship transfer. When they first meet you as a csm, they've just come out of a sales pipeline. They have met with sales and they set expectations sky high. Right. So there's an immediate challenge where you have to, right, size their expectations. And almost every company, customers are coming in with really high expectations. So we, we train our team to, one, figure out what are their goals. Like, actually genuinely listening, like. Like Jim mentioned, like, listening, figuring out why did they actually purchase? You know, do they want more time at the golf course? Is it to double, you know, their company's revenue? Is it to get time back? There's things that are not the obvious as to why someone purchased a product or a service. And then we also tried to get them a win as fast. That win isn't achieving that goal that they mentioned. It's some sort of win to get them value right away. So generally, like, those are the two things we're most focused on is, right, sizing those expectations by unveiling what their true goals are and then later on correcting what we can actually achieve, but then getting them some type of win as fast as possible. It's a very strategic relationship and customer success versus maybe like going to a networking event. And so maybe we're Going to differ on like what our strategies are here, but from a CSM side, like that's, that's crucial for us. [00:44:47] Speaker C: Well, I think in your specific example, in that, you know, scenario, it's very similar to what I would say. I think you're allowing that person to feel heard and seen. Right. You've asked them the questions, you understand the expectations and you serve up a win. Right. For sure. So now they know that you're listening. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Yep. [00:45:07] Speaker C: Right. They know that you understand the importance and you care, you care about them to provide something to them that's of value. So now they feel valued because you've provided value to them. So I recently looked at a stat. 70% of people don't trust someone who isn't similar to them. [00:45:29] Speaker A: That's a good one. [00:45:30] Speaker C: So how do you build relatability? How do you common ground and find common ground? Well, you do that by asking questions and you do that by looping back to the person what they just said. The best way to show someone you're listening is to tell them exactly what they just told you. It sounds crazy. [00:45:52] Speaker A: It does, right. [00:45:53] Speaker C: And it may sound awkward if you've never done it, but looping back to them shows them that you understand. And you can do it in different ways. You can say, you know, Jennifer, you just said that, you know, you went down to on Broadway in Nashville for the first time last week and then you just pause and they're like, yeah, I did. And it sounds funny, but you just told them that you heard that it was the first time they were down on Broadway in Nashville. It's that simple. Yeah. You can paraphrase, you can pick one little nugget, you can pick the most recent nugget of information that they shared with you and then you can, you know, be relatable and say, I remember the first time I was down on Broadway in Nashville. I was looking around, there was people falling down drunk. There was an 80 year old guy, you know, with cowboy boots on and, you know, pounding two beers and like, is that place wild? You can ask a question like, yeah, that was wild. I saw this and that. Now we're sitting there being relatable to an experience that they had, which was similar to an experience that I had. Right. When we build deep human connection, the fastest way for relatability and trust is to share heightened states of emotion. Right. Alex, you and I, when we met, we talked about a period of time where our emotions were heightened. Right? We're going, you know, we're navigating these different scenarios. Shared experience. Right. When you share an experience and someone else shares it, it immediately draws you closer that you're very similar to the other person. And I think that's super, super important. And then the last one is shared values. [00:47:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:47:43] Speaker C: If. If I know it's important for you to have integrity, and I can ask you a question around your values and then tell you that it's important for. For me to have and share a story. Well, now we have the same values. Right? And you know, in most times in business, we're not going to talk politics, we're probably not going to talk religion. So how can we start to talk about the values? Hey, is it important that I follow up quickly with you? And what's that time frame? Okay. I guarantee you that we will hit that timeframe of 48 hours when an inquiry comes in. Integrity is important to me. Well, now I just. Shared integrity is important to me. And they're probably going to want you. They're probably going to think that integrity is important to them. It's a common value system in business. Well, now that trust is important because I just communicated what was important to me and asked questions to show them that I can show up in that communication line because it's important to them. [00:48:44] Speaker A: One of the questions I like to ask, and it gets a lot of those answers that you just mentioned, which is, can you tell me about your company's culture? Right. I like to ask about that because it's not, tell me what do you do? Right. And we're talking about, you know, networking with business owners. So these are people who have literally shaped their company to look like themselves in a lot of ways. Right. So it tells me and it gives me opportunity, it tells me a lot about them, but it gives me an opportunity to press a little bit deeper and then see where that commonality is that you just mentioned and then their values, like you just mentioned as well. So I love starting with that. And I do that on the customer success side, too, because that's where we can then start going into those goals that they have. But starting with the culture. It's just a little trick I have, and it's essentially just reframing that same question of tell me what you do, but it's a way better way about going about it. [00:49:46] Speaker B: I love what you shared, Jim, about sharing, about mentioning a shared value. And something an aha moment was for me while I was listening to you was that I can use that to motivate a desired outcome. So, for example, like on a sale If I'm on a sales call and I want to motivate an outcome which is that they won't ghost me or that they will reply to my follow up, I can just tie a value which I say, I can say, okay, hey Jim, I'm gonna send you the action plan after this call. And communication and integrity is very important to me, so I would just appreciate it if you can get back to us. What's a reasonable time look like for you? So I love that I can just like add that in and it kind of like turns on a little bit of now they want to be, to have integrity or they want to look like they're good communicators and have integrity, right. Then it kind of like motivates them emotionally. So I really like that. I'm going to use that. Actually that was my aha moment from listening to you. But now we, we are in the age of AI, right? Your, your, your book was really leading on the emphasis of like, okay, now is a different time. I think you would, I think everyone in this conversation was born in the time before the Internet. And then we did, we had the Internet and then we had social media and then now we have AI. So we've been through a lot of like technological revolutions that changed how we as humans interacted with each other. So your book's premise is that connection is the thing that AI can't replace. But a lot of founders now are using AI to scale their outreach. They're using automated DMS and AI written follow ups. Some AI stuff are really, really unbelievably realistic. But what do you think? Where is the line between efficient and hollow? [00:51:48] Speaker C: Well, I think, you know, we're not back in 2021, 2022, where you know, if you were using AI, people weren't aware, right? Like AI has now come to the common person, whether they're in business, whether they're in corporate, whether they're, you know, all over the world, right? So when you're using it and you're using AI's responses and scripts, a majority of people know that, right? It's not this hidden truth anymore. It's not like, wow, Jim's so smart. He said all this amazing things perfectly and wrote this perfectly and you know, just hit, sent me something in the perfect timing and followed up with me. So, you know, strategically and like we all get it now, right? So it's becoming common. And I believe that when you use a tool that's so common, then it removes the unique ability that you actually provide. In your business and the service that you provide. So I'm not anti AI, I'm not anti automation. But how do you prove that? It's your truth, it's your genius, and it's actually you that is less common than I think where we are today and where we're going. So if you come into a business, if you come into a marketing strategy, if you come into a certain market, whether it's a new product, a niche, different geographic regions, and you're doing everything the same as everybody else, do you think you're going to actually win and separate yourself from the market? Probably not. So how do we stay human and how do we use the tools to leverage that humanity? I do things on text messages called the Send later feature. After I meet someone, right, I have a great conversation. You're top of mind, you're in my head. I just, you know, I can remember still what we talked about, all the details. And I'll do a voice message or I'll do a send later text message that sends three days from now as my follow up, right? You're fresh. It's in my mind. I'm going to take advantage of a tool that's going to automate this message three days from now because I can show the humanity, I can show that I was listening, I can show the energy in that message while I'm in the moment. I think utilizing things like that is extremely advantageous because it's you, it's your voice, it's your truth and you're deriving it from that specific experience. You know, my mom, when I visited her in Boston this past week, we called like the cable company and it was AI and I couldn't pick it up at it and I couldn't get to a human. So we went down and we gave back all the equipment and canceled the service. Right. Like there was a problem that it couldn't solve and all the solutions was just more knowledge, more information and they ended up losing that sale, right? And that was like a 24 month contract. I think when we outsource everything and you never actually get the most common ground, which is one human to another, you're gonna lose in the long haul. And when you, when you manipulate someone to make them think that it's you and to think that it's a, it's a human or it's this AI avatar and it's not you, I just don't see that winning in the long run. You know, I saw Russell Brunson put out an AI avatar and I unfollowed all his pages. I'm like, dude, you're already massive. You're already huge. Like, everybody knows you. And you're like, just regurgitate all the content you've shot in the last 15 years. It's still gonna be really good. Yeah, but I unfollowed everything, literally everything. And I. And I would read his content and be on his email list and I'm just like, you didn't have to do that because now I don't know what I'm getting now. There's some uncertainty, right? And in my emails at the bottom, you know, I put like, you know, excuse the errors. This is a real human, not AI. Because I want people to know it's really me responding. You know, if you're hiring me for a speaking engagement, it's not an assistant, it's me. And if I do, then I'll have them put their email signature, right, like, you know, executive assistant or booking manager, and they'll copy me on the email. So I want to just have Claire expectations of who's communicating because I don't want someone to think that they're getting me when they're not. I don't want someone to think they're getting someone on my team when it's auto generated. And, you know, luckily, I think that has been very positive for my business, very positive for my relationships, and very, very positive for referrals and opportunities. Because you know exactly what you're getting when you work with me or my team. And I think that's very important in an age where things are getting really like, I have to double take. I don't know about you guys, but I'm like, is that a human? Is that AI? You know, and it's like, oh, okay, yeah, there's the little thing that's wrong. Well, is that information accurate? Do I now need to go validate it? And guess what, folks, I'm not gonna go do a bunch of research for something that could be as simple as a real human sharing their real truth and their real experience with how they learn that information. [00:57:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that before AI, you know how we feel a certain way when someone has too much plastic surgery, it's because they lose themselves. They don't look like themselves anymore. Right? Like, we feel a certain way. I'm not saying do you support it? Do you not? But we feel a certain way. We feel like there's a little bit of trust that that was lost. Right? Or like a receptionist answering a call instead of. Or pretending that are they there, Are they not there? We feel like we've been miss, you know, like we've been lied to. And, and I think that's it. I think that's the same feeling that we're getting with AI Just like bad taste. You unfollowed. For me, that is a big move of like, I'm not on board with this. Right. You unfollowing this big influencer in our industry. And you're right. Why would he do that? He can just pay a team to repurpose all of his videos from the last 10 years. There's enough to go around for sure. [00:58:33] Speaker A: I feel like every conference I go to, there's always one person that finds out that I'm in the customer success space and they ask me what am I going to do when my business dies. Because AI is going to take over the human interaction. And I really disagree with them completely for the exact reasons Jim that you just mentioned. I feel like people, they're just, there's no way they're going to fully want that. And there's. They, they want that human interaction, it's going to become more valuable. And it's almost always the same person, same type of person that's asking me that question. It's the person that has the apocalyptic views of AI that they. All they do is maybe go to the gym and work with Claude. [00:59:18] Speaker C: Right. [00:59:18] Speaker A: They have a conversation with Cloud all day long. And it's. Unfortunately, I've come across this quite a bit, but I think there's a push to. There's actually like a skill set gap that's being created right now and it's. Who can actually have these like genuine conversations. What you're teaching people is, I think because of AI becoming increasingly, increasingly more important, not just like the automation or the business side, but just like the skill set side of just having a basic conversation, which is, it's super scary. For me, it's job security as well, because I'm on the human interaction side as well. I don't know. Do you come across these types of individuals as well that are very, almost fatalistic to the human interaction because of AI? [01:00:07] Speaker C: Well, I think the experience that one human provides, how they think in real time, how they are analyzing based on their experiences, what to say, how to say it, when to say it, picking up on mirror neurons, picking up on when someone's agitated or frustrated, picking up on all these things that are human to human. You can provide a better experience where an AI bot is only utilizing the information based on the input that's being told. And then also if everybody's using the same tool, at what point does that tool not become a tool, right? So like if everybody removes their customer service and uses AI, well, you are now the unique company that loves on their customers, that checks in, that builds friendship, that builds connection, right? That provides something that the majority of the market isn't providing. So like, for me, when I think about this, I'm like, okay, I could write all these books with my company, Human Touch Publishing, and have AI write all of them, right? I can give it all the prompts. But we had someone send us a manuscript a month ago and then someone else two weeks later sent us a manuscript. And chapter seven of this book was almost identical to chapter 11 of this book. Well, what does that do to credibility? What does that do to authority? What does that do to the reason of why you're writing the book? You want people to know you, trust you, like you, right? You want to show your expertise. But if your expertise is similar to other books and it's just this regurgitated experience, then it doesn't make you unique. Out of the 4 million books that get published on Amazon annually, right, you're now a statistic in the wrong way, not an outlier for someone to go and hire you opposed to everybody else. So when I think about AI bots and agents, right, they're great. They're organization reminders, managing calendar, right? Like all this stuff is great. But at what point are you outsourcing your unique ability in your soul to be very similar to what everybody else is selling, right? If you and I sold the same product that an AI bot built, what makes you choose me over you? What's the outlier? When someone's 50, 50 making a decision and they need to get to 51% to choose, well, a human is going to always be that outlier. A human is always going to push someone over the edge because they can connect with them, they can make them feel heard, valued, seen, and provide trust. I don't know if that AI bot's really going to do what it says. I don't know if you've programmed it correctly and, you know, built out the communication table and put this information in. If someone asked this question, like if it's an AI bot, maybe it just goes out to the, you know, to the universe and nothing ever comes back. I don't know because I don't know the back end technical skills that you've built it to be. So I think that the soft skills and the human approach is going to be the outlier that allows businesses to grow, succeed and flourish. And I'm betting everything on it. Right. It's all I talk about in my keynotes. And we, we write books. I just bought humanbookwriting.com as another domain because I know people are going to be super searching that domain. Right. My company's called Human Touch Publishing. We use AI Just in transcriptions of interviews. That's it. So I'm putting all my eggs in on this because I've already heard hundreds and hundreds of people at conferences talk about this, talk about. I just wish I could get a human. I just wish, you know, I could get this answer from someone I can trust. And at what point do you trust something without a soul, without a heart, and ultimately is just a machine of metal or data center information? I don't know about you, but I'm not trusting my kids with that. I'm not trusting my wife with that. And when I'm investing in a business or a company to provide services, I'm definitely not going to trust that. [01:04:16] Speaker A: I'm going to clip this. I'm going to put it on my website. You heard it from Jim Morris. That's amazing, Jim. And you know what's funny is I look back at maybe 12 years ago, my time at Amazon, I was working with some amazing people at Microsoft and working with some amazing people who just did account management or customer success. And they thought they were this people without a skill, right? They're just good at talking to other people. Well, all these people are. Other people are. They're coding. They've got these particular skills. Now fast forward to today and I feel like they're the ones with the skill. They're the ones with that unique skill set. And it's really cool to see the transition. And I couldn't agree with you more. I'm excited to hear you share that thought. [01:05:00] Speaker B: I love that because it's so, it's so true. And Alex and I have all the numbers on this. Ever since AI came on, we definitely, I'm not going to lie, we felt that fear of like, what's going to happen to our industry. But our most successful clients have gotten more and more people. The contracts have doubled, tripled. One of Alex's first few clients was Olive Oil, High End olive oil membership company that hired three people from him off the bat because they want 24, seven humans manning their customer service because they have a country club type of audience. These people are paying hundreds of dollars every month to get access to a Curated set of olive oils delivered to their house. That's the clientele. So. And we've noticed some of our other clients that are really investing in growth, they are getting more human because they know they're right there with you, Jim, in believing that it's really the human that is the differentiator. Right? So I feel scared for these people who are getting AI girlfriends and AI boyfriends. I feel scared for them. I'm gonna pray for them. But maybe let's get them to find you. Jim and your book. We had such a great conversation today. Thank you so much for giving us your time. I wish we could could go on forever and then I can trauma dump to you and we can get bonded more. But tell us how our listeners can find you, how they can get your book, and how they can work with you. [01:06:28] Speaker C: Yes. Amazon Connect or Die how to Survive. AI in all the countries that Amazon serves, it's available. If you're interested in writing a book, you know, having your book edited, designing a book, using it to be build authority as a tool for your company, for your brand. Humantouchpublishing.com you know, let's connect. Let's figure out an opportunity to, you know, move you from a someday author to a to a present author. And then realjim morris.com if you want to see what I'm talking about. Some speeches I've done, you know, you want to have me at your next event, feel free to reach out and let's connect if you want. None of that. I want to meet you, I want to talk to you. I'm all about human connection, so I'm sure there's some great things we could do together. Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate you. [01:07:21] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Jim, it's been a really great time [01:07:23] Speaker C: having you on here. [01:07:25] Speaker A: Really glad we made this happen. Carla. [01:07:28] Speaker B: Right, so that is Jim Morris and his book Connect or Die how to Survive. AI go grab it. We'll link all of the ways that you can purchase it in the show notes. And of course, if you're heading to a conference this quarter, try the one thing he told us today, Ford. And that was family, occupation, recreation and dreams. Yeah, trust me, guys, he's not a plant Here by Ford. He's not working for them. He's not selling cars or anything. He's just making it easy for us to remember. I remembered it right away. Thank you so much, Jim. And we had so much fun. [01:08:06] Speaker C: Thank you again. [01:08:07] Speaker B: All right.