Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Every business right now that almost nobody is having out loud, the owner has told their team to start using AI. Maybe there's a loom video about it, maybe a tool got added to a stack and then nothing changed. The work looks the same, the turnaround time looks the same, and everyone's quietly deciding not to bring it up again. Meanwhile, half the team is already using AI. They're just not telling you because admitting it feels like admitting they're replaceable.
So you've got a leader pretending the rollout worked and the team pretending it didn't happen. That's not a technology problem. That's a trust problem. Wearing technology costume.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: You weren't born to sit in traffic, work for approval, or wait for Fridays. You were built to be free.
Welcome to Rich and Remote, the show for the ones who dare to do life differently. Here we talk about building businesses that give you choices where you work, how you live and what you create.
This is for the entrepreneurs who crave freedom, financial freedom, location freedom, and freedom from everyone else's expectations. If you're ready to design a life on your own terms, you're in the right place. Rich and Remote hosted by Alex and Carla Booth.
[00:01:29] Speaker C: Foreign.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: Welcome back to Rich and Remote. I'm Alex.
[00:01:41] Speaker C: Hey Alex, Good morning to you. I totally agree with you. I see it with a lot of my clients at proximity outsourcing small, medium sized businesses with really, really smart leaders. But they have this general anxiety because we are in the middle of a workforce revolution and and we're going to have a very important conversation today, which I'm super lucky I was able to basically harass one of my clients. Very smart guy. David Chung is a fractional chief AI officer for growing companies. His starting point, adopting AI is first a people problem before it's a technology problem. So what he does is that he helps leadership teams get their people actually using it, not just deploying it through a 90 day align, equip and prove process. Before doing this, he spent 13 years building the operational backbone of a global coaching organization. First on Marshall Goldsmith's certification team, then as COO of Global Coach Group, where he helped scale technology to over 3,500 people across six continents. That's why you guys got to jump in this conversation today. And if you feel like you have a friend who could really use a conversation like this, send this episode to them. Our guest David has also hosts a podcast of his own, Coach as Entrepreneur. And it's about building real businesses through systems and not hustle. He's based in Seoul, South Korea and runs Kyber Fib, his company on the same principle. People first, Tools second. Welcome, David. How are you today?
[00:03:19] Speaker B: Thank you so much for bringing me on on the show. I'm good. How are you guys?
Good.
[00:03:23] Speaker C: We are doing great.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: I got to just, like, real quick. I know we got a lot to talk about. I want to say I'm jealous that you live in South Korea. I've always wanted to go there. I wanted to golf, I want to ski. There's just something about South Korea that, like, really calls to me. So hopefully it's everything that it's hyped up to be in my head.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Yeah. It's thin and more. And then there's also all the other stuff about living in a different country. It's great.
I'm originally from Chicago. I imagined I'd be here.
[00:03:50] Speaker C: Yeah. So he likes good food, basically.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of good food here. There's a lot of food. Yeah. And like Fusion, I feel like I'm
[00:03:59] Speaker A: like a quarter kimchi at this point. I just like, devour kimchi on a regular basis.
[00:04:04] Speaker C: Yeah. You altered your DNA already, Alex. Yeah.
Yeah. So speaking of alteration, a lot of teams have also now alter their DNA. And one of the things that I really picked up, David, from the things that you're teaching and you're helping small business owners is you say that adoption is a people problem before it's a tech problem. Walk me through that statement.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think we got caught up in the technology. Like, I love tech as a. I used. I'm a photographer. I like computers and all this stuff. So technology, I love it. But when it comes to, like, your organization and what we've seen, the trends that we've seen in the last few years, I think we got lost in all this shiny new object and not how are we using it and applying it. And what I mean is that last year there was a bunch of research that happened, and I forget who, but they were saying that about 90, 95% of organizations that were implementing AI failed at actually seeing any measurable ROI. And this year we're seeing organizations like Meta and Microsoft who they told their engineers, just use AI and they've blown through their entire annual budget in half or a fraction of their the year, it's wild. It's not really producing any better results, or in some cases, it might be worse. In the case of, like, people just using AI to generate their emails, nobody wants to read AI email slot. And so my perspective is that, like we said, here's AI, here's technology. This will solve everything for you. It has nothing. And so we kind of lost the forest for the trees in that. Whenever we've generally had a new technology that's been rolled out in organizations, there's a process called change management where somebody in the organization will come in and or a consultant will come in and kind of walk the organization through what's changing and how to use that new thing, that new process, that new technology that's not happening with AI or that hasn't happened. And I think that is exactly what does need to happen, starting from the top. Because if leadership at the top isn't aligned on what we're doing with this technology, how are the people in the middle or at the bottom trying to understand what to do with that?
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Actually saw that firsthand when I. My last year at Amazon, we got caught kind of with our pants down with ChatGPT launching. And then there was a question like, should we use it? Should we not? And then people demanding that you do. And then there was just like no proper change management coming in to like teach us how we were allow to use it. So people were nervous too. And then people needed to. At the same time, there's just so much confusion around it. So I completely resonate with that.
That was a very difficult time as like an employee, probably even a management perspective. Especially with like these larger orgs where there's so many layers of management, no one wants to get out of line right with their recommendation.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: And it's like everybody's trying to figure it out at the same time. And in general, a lot of the C suite and middle managers aren't necessarily technical. Nobody, quite frankly, like, there's a lot of misconceptions of what can happen. Like if we look at US Congress and what happened a couple of years ago where they were bringing all these tech CEOs through, you could obviously tell a lot of people didn't know what they were talking about or the questions that they were asking. And in general, unless you're like super geeky, super nerdy about some of this stuff, how are you, how are you keeping up with that? Like, you're trying to, you're trying to run an organization, your business, but then you have to keep on top of this other technology. It's just very difficult. And it's. In some ways it's just like you just can't do everything right.
[00:07:41] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, there's a gap. And based on your work with the small and medium business owners and how you've helped Them. What are some of the most important, maybe two to three mindset shifts that you're seeing? That's really, really important, that if they stop listening to this podcast right now, if they remember these two things, it would really help them.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the first thing that I keep telling people is AI is not a genie. And what I mean is that we have this notion that if I just give it something, any details, without any explanation of like it, we'll just give it something really vague and it'll just produce something really amazing. That is exactly what we need. That does not happen, like, almost never. I would say 99.9%. It will not happen. And it's funny to me because we're expecting this technology to know us better than we know ourselves or what our business goals are. But it's kind of like actually when you look at these cartoons about genies, like Aladdin, you say, I want this thing, and the genie gives it to Aladdin, but then it's not the way he was expecting it. And that's kind of the thing that's happening now is we're expecting this AI, this technology, to give us this thing. And it's. It'll give it to us, but not the way we expect it. The number one thing that I've been telling people is just you can't expect this output without actually giving it the right input. That right input is, what's your business context? Who are you? Who do you serve? What are your services? What does customer support look like? It's all of these details that you would generally give to your team when you're onboarding them that you should be giving to your AI. The second thing is actually, it's actually easier to think of your AI as a human than as a robot. And what I mean is that if we think about when we're hiring on a new person, we have to onboard them the whole context and information that's part of it. Right? We give them our company information, our operations, SOPs, services, customer service documentation. That's part of onboarding. We also give them training on how do we behave in these situations. That's actually what we need to do with a lot of these AI models and tools. The biggest difference is that in AI, it just does all of these things exponentially faster than a human being. In general, they complain less.
[00:09:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I always say, treat AI as a smart intern. Right? That is my favorite description of AI. And as now we're onboarding both humans and agents, I have to always remind myself that because I Also made the same mistakes. David, the that you met. I also treated AI as a genie and Alex and I even had conversations when I would not answer him directly and I would say just chatgpt. It just, you know.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just funny to me that we think this way because it is a program, it's a robot.
[00:10:27] Speaker C: Right.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: But it's really unreasonable to think like that because it can be smarter, but you have to give it that the context so that it can, it can know what to do accordingly, right?
[00:10:39] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So I think that there is something quietly also bubbling right now of people using AI constantly but hiding it because admitting it feels like admitting they're replaceable or maybe lazy. How common is that? And what does a leader do about a team, maybe secretly already ahead of them? Maybe there's that anxiety coming from the business owner or leader. How do you deal with that?
[00:11:04] Speaker A: And David, before you answer, I just want to give you context. I need this answer for my team. I've been doing, we do weekly trainings and the amount of times I see them using AI without telling me they're using AI and they shouldn't be, I need this context so I can figure out how to coach my team when to use it, when not. So my ears are super open right now.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I think in this situation a lot of people are afraid because they've heard AI is going to come and take my job, they think I'm going to be replaced. And I think this is the thing about leadership is you have to have a real conversation about what you're trying to accomplish when you're bringing in AI. For me, my saying is it's about augmentation and not automation. What we can do with AI in terms of research, of writing, of generating code, it is mind bogglingly fast, but it's not necessarily creative and it doesn't have the intuition that's needed to do some of the work that we're doing. And for some things like research, I'm going to hand that off to AI because it's going to do what would have taken me two hours in less than five minutes.
So there's specific tasks that I want to hand off.
And so I also don't want to necessarily have to validate and start to decide, okay, how are we using this? I want to have this, give this to a team member who's going to help me. So I want to have a marketing agent, a marketing team member who's going to look at all this research and say, actually, okay, this is what we're seeing. These are the trends I think for our business context this would be really interesting to write an article like this. The team needs to feel comfortable. We're not trying to replace you in these functions. We want to be able to use you in the maximum, not use you. We want to enable you to do the thing that you love in the most efficient and optimized way. And so AI here is going to be your assistant while you do X. Right. They have to feel comfortable to say like, yeah, I'm using it. This is the ROI that I'm seeing based off of this. It used to take me this much time to do this, to do research.
Now it takes me this much time to do it with AI. Now I can spend more time focusing on this part of the marketing process.
And the other thing is that I think that in terms of like security, like organizations really do need to have their own subscriptions to these technologies and that their people are using that organization version because there's levels of security that you don't, that you want to make sure you have a handle on. There's a term called like shadow it.
You have your IT department. IT department is focused on like data infrastructure, cybersecurity, all of these things. But a lot of companies have their own marketing teams that have their own that used to end up building up their like websites on WordPress or using some CRM tool or some form technology. And so this is what they kind of termed like shadow IT because marketing and other parts of the organization needed to get things done but they couldn't because they had to go through all of this red tape through IT department which kept the organization safe. But now it's, it's actually every individual. When you start using AI, you've just created your own shadow IT department because now you don't really know what's being shared, what client information, what internal documents.
And it's not necessarily happening because people want to, they're not trying to leak or do something illegal. It's just they're trying to do their job better and they are just unaware that there are some legitimate security risks. When you start sharing information with third party vendors.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: I like that idea. You're essentially giving them a safe space because they're going to use it. Right. You're giving them a safe space to use it by enabling them, by creating the company version. Right. And providing that.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And honestly there's a lot of, of benefit to having a company knowledge base and company use of AI. And when you bring that out to the open now you can kind of actually open source training. Because when everybody kind of says, yes, I'm using AI and you set the goal not to be, how much are you using AI? But what kind of ROI are you seeing with that? Because you can kind of. Then you can say, hey, what are you seeing? What are you doing? How do I do the same thing for my work? Or what skills did you give ChatGPT or Claude? Like, how do I learn from you? How do we all kind of upskill what we're doing with AI? I think in some ways you can kind of make that a company challenge of like, okay, who's doing the most interesting thing this week?
[00:16:03] Speaker C: Like a show and tell.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Exactly.
We used to have these like, was it lunch and tells? Right. You just do like a 15 minute stand up. You extend it by 15 minutes and say, hey, this is a new research study. I found that that works really well. This is something I've been doing with loops. Right. And last night I saw there's this whole thing about graph. Anyway, super nerdy AI stuff. Right. But there's all these new things that people are finding constantly because we're. We're all experimenting with AI and so it's just. Yeah. So as an individual, you can't track everything, and we shouldn't. But as a group, we can all benefit from learning from each other.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: You know, Carla and I are actually doing something kind of similar next week. We're having. Both of our teams are sitting down and doing like a show and tell of what each team has built with AI. We're really excited on my company's team to show her like what we've built operationally with AI and they're preparing to show us we're kind of knowledge sharing.
So it's kind of cool. Like you can do that internally, but we're also doing it with a very close partner company. I like to say our companies are married just like we are. But people painted exactly the scenario where we're doing that.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: Oh, that's cool.
[00:17:17] Speaker C: It's also nice because it's just like a peer thing. Right. But your approach, David, is because you're focusing on the business owner and there's that saying of the growth of a business typically does not is really tied to the growth of the leader. Right. And it's really important to have that support and have that trickle down too.
So one thing that stood out to me in your experience is that you've done this work across six continents or you've done work supporting consultants, leaders, business Owners across six continents. Where did the same rollout like land completely differently. And what did that teach you about assuming that your own norms are universal? I guess. And of course, how that all relates now in the age of AI revolution.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So growing up. So I was born in this in Chicago. Korean, American. My parents were immigrants. And then about 15 years ago, I moved back to Korea accidentally because I only came back, came here for three months and then it's been 15 years.
So cultural context, there's. There's a lot. Even when I was working in a company, we. A lot of people were bilingual, English and Korean. And so. But even you had the same group of people.
And when you switch the language, when you went from English to Korean, there was a different atmosphere. The way we spoke changed, the way we interacted with each other. Because in English, it's very flat and more informal, whereas Korean, there's a. It's very hierarchical.
And so there's built into the way you speak. There's changes in the way you. You speak to people above or below you.
And so I never really realized that before I came to Korea. And so when we talk about, like, how do we bring AI into organizations, I think culturally you have to kind of break the whole mold of how you think about this, because organizations as we've just been kind of running it, it's not working.
And so the way the paradigm shift has happened in our minds and has to happen with leadership. And they need to make it okay for the organization to kind of where they might have felt uncomfortable before to with this thing, they need to make it acceptable. It's really interesting. I was listening to a neuroscientist talk about this and they were saying that fear, when people are afraid, their brains aren't basically capable of expanding learning, being curious because they're in this fight or flight mode. You're not trying to learn new things when you're afraid, am I going to have a new job or I'm going to have my job tomorrow?
So one, is that conversation with leadership and two, is that the way we need to have this discussion of curiosity and opening up that floor, as we were just saying, of like show and tell, making it okay and acceptable for people to play and test with this technology and to share it, I think will actually help organizations to thrive because now we can learn from each other. And I'm very much the idea of like, synergy and like, where one plus one doesn't equal two, but one plus one equals 11.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Well, on that topic, when it comes to Leadership having such a big impact, how often is the leader actually like the bottleneck of a company adopting and rolling out the red carpet for AI for their team?
[00:20:50] Speaker B: I think the leader is always the bottleneck, truthfully, because any initiative or anything, not just AI or technology, but anything, if the leadership, if the CEO C suite is not aligned with whatever, anything people want to do, it's not happening. The only caveat for that is somebody is very rebellious and is very sure and is okay with that risk. But few people in organizations are like that. And so in general doesn't happen. So unless the leadership is ready to accept responsibility that they are the bottleneck and try to get aligned and move forward, it's gonna be very slow going. Because honestly, like, if you have the boss and you have someone in middle or at the bottom of the organization saying, hey, we really need to use this AI thing because I can 10x what we're doing, who's got the power in the organization? When the boss says no because X, they're gonna be like, most of the time they're not. They're gonna be okay, never mind. I'll just go back to doing things my own way and I'm just gonna use AI very no, but I know I can do this. So that's. It has to happen from the top. If it doesn't, nothing's going to get done.
[00:22:05] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right about it, like affecting morale. One thing that I've seen other leaders do as a mistake is their team feels so positive and optimistic about AI that they are experimenting on their own with the free versions of ChatGPT and Claude. And then when they come to their leader and say, hey, boss, boss. Alex, can you give me a Claude Max or pro? What was a $20? Whatever the, the lowest subscription. And then the boss says no, because we have to tighten up our belts. And then now they feel like a little bit of a morale dip, you know, and that is a bigger loss than the $20 subscription that the leader. I've seen this happen, sadly, a couple of times.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that happens all the time. If you have a conversation meeting with like the C suite or with your boss and you have an idea and then your boss is like, actually, what would make it better is if we did this, this and this. Now you don't feel like you have ownership now it's just a leader saying, oh, actually this is the leader's not. That's the leader's project because they added these couple of things and then they're going for it. So there's a lot about empowerment, leadership and management that's there.
And so even just beyond the technology
[00:23:24] Speaker C: part, and because leaders and business owners, a lot of us, we are not immune from this. A lot of us complain about, oh, my team is not doing enough, they don't have enough leadership or initiative. But you're also maybe not encouraging them to. Right. And maybe there's something that can be done on that front as well in terms of managing people and hiring people. David, this is really something I'm curious about because I'm in outsourcing and I hire talented people for businesses like yours. Businesses everywhere in the world that want to grow fast should use this AI effectively, be aligned in the job description. Now, do you think it should be a basic expectation for business owners, and if so, how do you write it? Or how do you present that as an applicant, or what do you look for as a business owner so that it means something meaningful to the company instead of being just a checkbox?
[00:24:21] Speaker B: So that's really interesting.
I would say, actually, that's the wrong thing to be looking at. I think it's the same KPI that organizations were looking at in terms of how many tokens are you using, using AI effectively?
I kind of want to say it's a BS idea. And the reason I say that is because it's because that everybody is testing and learning, experimenting with AI right now. And to be somebody who is testing, experimenting with AI, it has nothing to do with can I use technology effectively? It's actually, do you have a desire to learn, experiment and try new things? That is far more better and necessary from my perspective, in an age where technology every, every single week is changing. If you can use AI effectively today based off of what you've learned over the last six months, that doesn't mean you're going to be able to use it effectively next week when that model's changed. What will dictate your effectiveness is actually how quickly and how willing are you to. To learn and experiment and try new things. So, and actually, I was saying yesterday, I don't really care if somebody knows about AI today. I want to know if they're willing to learn and how quickly they can pick up new things, new skills.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: That's super interesting because I think Carla and I look at it almost like past job description, where you say, must excel, proficient, right? And when we're in an interview, I'm figuring out, do they know pivot tables? Do they know vlookups? And then I'm checking that box.
So when someone's actually in role, do you have any advice for us to judge on how well someone's actually using AI? Because they're producing work, right? They're producing some output at these companies. How do we know if it's them or the AI and like how do we judge them at this point? I don't know if you have any tips or tricks around that.
[00:26:20] Speaker B: So I actually my thing is augmentation, not automation. So as a business owner what we want to see is end results. Right. And how quickly did you do that? Because time is money. Again, I don't think it's, I don't care if they used AI or not, honestly, I care if the work is done well. So in terms of the scenario, I would ask them how would you, or how have you in the past gone about doing this task? How would you do it if you could use any AI tool? Again, a simple, simple example would be research. If you were a marketer who needed to write new content for our website, how would you go about doing that? Traditionally it's let's do research, then we'll do our draft, then we'll write it and then what's the images we're going to add and SEO and all that stuff. Right.
For me today when I do research, there was a new, from Stanford. They came out this, with this outline called storm. I can't remember what it's about, what the details are, but it was a five letter acronym, storm. Essentially what they did was they created five Personas, five agents that would go out and do research on a specific topic from five different perspectives. They would aggregate all that information and then write up a Wikipedia style report which I also found really interesting is that Wikipedia now became a benchmark. Yeah, that's hilarious.
But, but that's not what they're doing. Right. And so this idea of how you do research validation like this is still fairly new. This from Stanford, it only came out of, I want to say like six or seven weeks ago. And so, but this is a whole, for the vast population is a, is a paradigm shift because when people do research, they're using a chat in a single window that's going out and doing it from one perspective that to me signals okay, they're thinking a little bit differently. They're staying ahead of or staying on top of the news on how to do research. The application of AI isn't again, it's ahead of the game because most people aren't using sub agents anyways. So that's, that's kind of What I would be doing is, how are you doing it? Or how have you done it? Is there something new or novel that they're doing that we're not doing internally? And then, yeah, asking what are you. If you're paying attention to AI, what are. What are the things that you're looking at? Because I also see that everybody is focused on their personal interests. Like, I see I have some friends who are really interested in like AI image generation or like AI videos. And they're way better at that than I am. I've been really interested in business operations, building apps and websites and then actually really focused on content. And I'm way faster than they are at those parts of the business. Right. And so depending on our personal interests, we have our personal. Forgetting English words. We have our personal biases towards things that we learn.
[00:29:19] Speaker C: Right.
[00:29:19] Speaker B: And so. And that's just another way like, oh, this person's really interested in images. Like, we should use them for like, image generation. Or maybe we have them working with our social media team to think of, like, how do we take go from images to AI videos or AI video editing? This person really loves customer service. How do we help them to build our knowledge base that works off of ND rag and graph models? So then that's how we augment people's interests and biases in a way that's actually gonna make them excited about working and that's gonna benefit us as an organization.
[00:29:55] Speaker C: I like that, I like the. That you mentioned about what to look for in my company for managerial roles. We run critical thinking and abstract reasoning tests as a way to see if they are AI ready, I would say, and of course, if they already use AI. Exactly. You're absolutely right. We ask, how do you use AI in your daily life, like outside of work? And I've gotten some really interesting answers. Some of my favorites were there was this mom that she uses ChatGPT to tell a new bedtime story because her kid wants a new story each night. And she was like, well, there's only enough fairy tales in the world, you know, and now she just uses ChatGPT to do a different story each time. And. And I like that. And. And some other things that they use it for fitness and to manage their. Their own stuff. And I'm. It shows me which direction they are and, and their openness. Like you mentioned, I used to.
[00:30:50] Speaker B: So my son wanted to create his own stories, so I would use that with Gemini because there is this function where you could create your own storybook so you could give it Characters and a situation, and then it would generate the book and then we would read through it together. And he loved it.
[00:31:04] Speaker C: In an iPad, Something like that.
[00:31:06] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:31:07] Speaker C: Oh, that's nice. Yeah, it's really nice what AI can do and can produce out of just a few prompts.
One thing that is kind of a, a stumbling block in a lot of small, medium businesses, the people that you serve, is that a lot of team members can sometimes get overconfident about their work because they used AI. So my question for you would be, how should a leader approach that? For example, my employees submitted work they're super confident with because it looks well designed, it looks polished and clawed. Help them make it. But there's wrong. The information is wrong, the context is wrong. And you just know that it's not. This is not the deck that we're not. That we're going to show the client. How should that conversation go?
[00:31:52] Speaker B: This is kind of part of the paradigm shift that we're entering. I really believe that right now everybody needs to learn how to become a manager. And why I'm bringing that up is managers of teams are responsible for the team, but ultimately on the output and of what is being created, what's been given to that team to do. And I think like, generally speaking, as a team member, I've been given an assignment to do this thing. It looked well, it looked good. It hit all the KPIs or it checked all the boxes. But then ultimately it's not achieving, as you were saying, that goal of it wasn't the right, it wasn't the right style or messaging. The deck looks good, but content wasn't quite right for your team member. That content not being right, that might be like, oh, you didn't give me the right content. You didn't give me the right information to feed my AI to go and produce this thing. And so I think that in general, like one of the hardest things for any organization has always been communication. When you're married, it's hard enough to communicate well with your spouse. Right. To have zero miscommunication is not possible in any marriage. Right. But can you imagine when you're coming from different cultural contexts, different backgrounds, you're trying to communicate. And so as a manager, when we manage our teams, we have to have really clear PRDs or project documentation. What are our goals, what are our KPIs, what's the background story of the client we're working with or whatever project we're doing. The more clear and explicit we, we had outlined those Things, the better outcome we're going to get, we. But when we're not clear, again, this is a whole genie thing. We're not, if we're not super clear, then we're going to get who knows what. And sometimes you might hit the mark, a lot of times you won't. And so each team member, I think needs to feel more empowered as a manager of themselves and AI agents and have ownership of the outcome. Did this project, did this thing that you produced actually meet the criteria of what looks good? But two, did this actually do the thing we were trying to achieve? Did this answer the question? Did this give us the right content for this deck that's going to win us this new proposal? Because if it doesn't, if it didn't, then it doesn't mean anything. And so I think then in that situation it's like, were they given the right assignment? Did they have the right details? Were they just focused on, I just need to make this deck.
[00:34:29] Speaker A: I honestly, I think one thing that's really kind of, I'm taking from what you're mentioning too is super output focused, right? Like we now instead of looking at someone's contribution to the team in pieces, it's at the end goal, right? Can they, can they get us all the way through? And I think one thing that you're almost alluding to as well is just the expansion of responsibilities and potential.
You know, people have been siloed into certain roles and now they can kind of expand that based off of their interest and propensity to make an impact elsewhere. Right.
And I think that's gonna kind of shake the floor a little bit about how we manage our teams, how we build our teams and where our futures in certain companies are. The way you put it just kind of shook my perspective a little bit about how I look at team.
Are you seeing that is like a common problem for like managers to comprehend?
[00:35:31] Speaker B: I mean, honestly, like it's kind of a paradigm shift of how do we work. Somebody said to me like, it's great, you can do so much more work now in eight hours. It's like. And I'm just like. And he was equating like the output with the time and I was just like, I understand what you mean. Because that's how we've always worked. You do an eight hour shift and you expect this much output. Now with AI, I can't even tell you how many agents I run on a daily basis because I'm also running like sub agents and all this other stuff. But I'm outputting like probably 10 to 20x of what I used to be doing on my own and I'm doing that within a six to eight hour shift.
[00:36:11] Speaker C: Right.
[00:36:11] Speaker B: Is like if I'm still getting paid hourly now I have to just do more work.
So if I can 10x what I can do in eight hours.
Right. So I'm doing essentially 80 hours of worth of work in a day. That's two weeks.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a. Yeah. If we're looking at time. Think about that. Managers. Yeah, yeah.
[00:36:32] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: So do you want to be focusing anything on that or do you want to be focused on the output? For some people it's just like you're breaking their brains on how do we work, what does work look like in the future. And so it's kind of just like, let's say slowly walk into this. Let's just get comfortable with playing and being okay and curious with AI and you know, let's just do that securely first. And now let's start to, let's focus on output versus token usage.
And now we'll start to, as we, as people get more comfortable now we can see, you know, how do we start to change what do teams look like?
[00:37:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I think a lot of business owners are now inspired by AI in terms of, of output and productivity.
And I told my own team this, I said, well, hey, you know, the books won't lie. If we are producing more and we're doing better because of AI, then I don't need to hire more people, I can just pay you more. Right. And that's a conversation that I was using to also motivate them that they definitely have job security if they are smart enough to use AI in the way that will help the business and the goals of the business.
And also I am invested in their growth that, you know, come to me with whatever you're seeing would be beneficial. It's okay to be wrong as long as you, you know, give me a good argument, give me a thesis, give me a thesis on why we should do this thing and if, if I, I'm still accountable if we do it or not. And, and I appreciate suggestions. And so as we're closing this conversation, we've learned so much. David, I want people to really know. How do you help the business owners that you work with? Exactly. Can you describe to us what your work looks like, what the engagement looks like and what are the outcomes that your clients typically get working with you?
[00:38:23] Speaker B: Yeah, so just like AI is changing all the time, I'm always trying to improve my services. But essentially what I'm doing these days is working on aligning, equipping, improving. What we're doing with AI is, is actually working. I start with alignment because if we're talking about like managers and CEOs and leadership, if leadership isn't aligned on what, what does good look like, what are we trying to achieve, what's actually going to move the needle then whatever work we do, as good as it is, it might not. If it's not aligned with what the top wants, it doesn't really matter that much. Right. We want to make sure that everybody's aligned in the organization from the top down. So you want to have an organizational strategy defined within the leadership and then goals of what we're trying to achieve. The second thing then is equipping. So we want to equip the team C suite, people on the ground who are actually doing the work, how to use AI, how to think about it effectively. Places where I start is actually with memory and context because organizational memory and context. One is if the people who are doing the work don't have the right information in context, then everything they output from the beginning is on the wrong foundation. So either you're building on a cracked foundation or you're building in the wrong place altogether. That's not where you want to be as a business. So I focus a lot on what's the institutional memory context, bring that all in and make that accessible to everybody. In general that's not happening in most organizations because everybody's working within their own session of chat of Claude So we want to bring that into the organization and then the last thing there is proving it. So in all of this, my goal is within 90 days they're going to start to see results in their business. So either they're going to see people working faster, creating better output, creating better quality and all of that depends on what does leadership, what are the goals that they're setting for their organization?
[00:40:20] Speaker A: David, how can people find you and find this offer? Because it sounds like something that is just like striking right now at the moment is right. I'm like foaming at the mouth. I need this like I'm sure our listeners are as well.
So how do we find you? You?
[00:40:36] Speaker B: So I have two websites, Kyber5.com and Davidchung AI Kyber5 I set up years ago to help people with the systems and automations and then David Chung AI I just started more recently because this is the problem that I've been seeing in organizations. How do we implement AI in a smart, strategic way. And then I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram and YouTube as well.
[00:40:58] Speaker C: I love that. And for our listeners, we're going to link all of David Chung's links. Definitely take him up on a quick audit, a quick conversation. It's always those conversations that help you realize, like the one thing and like the lowest hanging fruit that they can improve for your business. And there's always that one thing that brings in huge change or when other changes start like a domino effect and always starts with the mindset of the leader. So thank you so much, David. And we, we've learned so much, gave us a lot of things to think about. And we hope to see you around.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: Thank you so much.
[00:41:32] Speaker C: All right, thanks, guys. Bye bye.
Thanks for listening to rich and remote, where freedom isn't a dream, it's a decision.
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